No amount of explanation, discussion, logic or evidence can convince the committed materialist that something is designed, so long as he clings to his incomplete paradigm which does not permit that possibility. Overall, I’d like to point out, there’s a difference between the metaphsyical theories themselves, and the people who uphold them. This study provides evidence that sexual selection can affect internal anatomy that controls male genitalia. The muscles that control a cetacean’s penis — which has a high degree of mobility — attach directly to its pelvic bones. http://www.thegrandexperiment......ution.html To even utter such a word or term itself is to be considered heretical. around the world, Skeletal, Muscular, and Integumentary Systems. In the catalogue of purported vestigial parts, whale hips are "the marquee example," writes Stephanie Keep at the absurdly named "Science League of America" blog populated by our Darwin-lobbying friends at the National Center for Science Education. KF â, PS: It seems initial disciplinary steps were taken by the Speaker and that investigations are in train: https://twitter.com/LeeChatfield/status/1336737371149242372 This incident... â, F/N: MI legislator issues thinly veiled threats against whistleblowers on events in Detroit, following up from out of order remarks... â, Viola âHmmm. 1846. Finally, they compared the size of the pelvic bones (relative to body size) to the size of the animal’s testis (again, relative to body si… 41 (8): 18-19. The physically stronger bully on the block tells the weaker kids: As such, it made sense to researchers that the pelvic bones could affect the level of control over the penis that an individual cetacean has, perhaps offering an evolutionary advantage. His graduate student Iyad Zalmout found a grooved piece of bone among the remains of a new 47-million-year-old whale, later named Artiocetus. Instead, we find that the differences today were apparent very early on. It took them a while to find the bones, because they tended not to be kept, as they were believed to be vestigial. This ancient whale, he says, appears to have had small, external legs. Moreover, as with all other fossil lineages in the fossil record, it is found that overall stasis is the norm once fully aquatic whales appeared in the fossil record: How Whales Have (NOT) Changed Over 35 Million Years â May 2010 What are the various components of periosteum. Whale is large tetrapod mammal with flipper like fore limbs but there is no hindlimb in body. Excerpt: The pelvic bones (supposed Vestigial Legs) of whales serve as attachments for the musculature associated with the penis in males and its homologue, the clitoris, in females. Excerpt: As one review noted: “The anatomical structure, biological function, and way of life of whales are so distinctly different from those of terrestrial mammals that they cannot possibly have evolved from the latter by small genetic changes; aquatics require the simultaneous presence of all their complex features to survive.” â Our cause is toxic, yeh right. Perhaps the real asymmetry is the following: ID proponents are perfectly comfortable with the (obvious and rather pedestrian) observation that some things in the world are designed and some things are not designed. No hindlimbs means pelvic girdle bones are not anymore needed in whale. This actually pulls the whale evolution tree out by the roots. That is exactly what Darwin would have predicted. It may not win the arguments, but they feel better even if it is only in their own minds. Isnât that the sign of a strong theory? Expectation of the theistic view (not a theist, but the view itself) is the lack (or small number, I can explain that if you’d like) vestigial organs. The pelvic bones are still there in whale's body but in very ill-developed condition: so in whale pelvis is nonfunctional, or so to say it is vestigial. The people... â, I would agree, but I think I might have a different view on which side is which.Why don't you provide... â, JVL âYour cause is toxic and itâs whipping up a frenzy. A-B So, instead of being vestigial, we find that they have been coopted for another purpose. Why aren’t the rats jumping off the H.M.S NeoDarwin? These important functions may explain why cetacean pelvic bones have not been lost through evolutionary time. If the impossibility of what Dr. Sternberg outlined in the video was not bad enough for neo-Darwinists, the time frame for the hypothetical transition to whales has now been dramatically shortened: A Whale of a Problem for Evolution: Ancient Whale Jawbone Found in Antartica – JonathanM – October 2011 âVestigialâ whale, dolphin hip bones actually needed for, um, reproduction, F/N: An example of how un-favoured parties and evidence are being treated by some courts. Many living species have a vestigial pelvis and leg bones, testifying…to their descent from four-legged ancestors. The whale shark is a filter feeder and its rows of teeth couldn't bite anything if they tried. ð, Maybe the “third way” folks coup explain it better? Help us to continue generating quality content and reliable website service. From the outside, they don't look much like whales at all. A: Not all textbooks cite the same vestigial structures, but let’s take a look at all of them together, and then analyze each one separately. Now here’s the trick. Unfortunately whale hips have now gone the way of appendix. Often, seemingly minor features provide critical evidence to link animals that are highly … Expectation of the Darwinist view (not the Darwinist person), on the other hand, is simply NOTHING! Not the first time. In contrast, the materialist must reject any possibility of design, no matter how compelling, no matter how absurd or illogical that rejection. The materialist has an anemic and insufficient explanatory toolkit that is missing some of the key tools. These bones are vestigial (no longer needed) remnants of their evolutionary past. Now, IMO, if Darwinian paradigm really deserves a scientific status, it should do the following: Given a total random process, a prediction should be made about the number/percentage/quantity of the vestigal organs in the organism, so that we can test with observations. The Galapagos cormorant has vestigial wings that don't help it to fly or swim, though the birds still dry them off in the sun after they get wet, just as if they would if they still could use them to fly. Very similar to the list of a 180 vestigial structures said to be in the human body in the late 1800’s dwindling to effectively zero, and the damage and laziness such thinking … I assume, Vividblue, that you include Breitbart and Gateway Pundit and Epoch Times and OAN as not credible news... â, Vividbleau: Credible news sources is a oxymoron. If strikingly similar designs are found in distant species, that just means evolution repeats itself. When I'm talking to you, or about you, or including... â, The election rules in Georgia state that mail in signatures must be checked against the signature on file at the... â, Frequently raised but weak arguments against Intelligent Design, Pond scum smashes genome into over 225k parts, then rebuilds it, Yes, plants do talk to each other, says prof, http://www.thegrandexperiment......ution.html, http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~d...../v6i2f.htm, http://www.trueauthority.com/cvse/whale.htm, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85kThFEDi8o, http://www.uncommondescent.com.....osenhouse/, http://www.uncommondescent.com.....antartica/, http://www.uncommondescent.com.....ent-356170, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRqdvhL3pgM, http://www.arn.org/blogs/index.....wlers_have, http://www.evolutionnews.org/2.....42291.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z2Lfxpi710, http://www.uncommondescent.com.....evolution/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08e9k-c91E8. The main difference is that whales don't have an ear canal that works and the bones in the ear aren't attached to the skull. If I may say, it’s the textbook expecation of theism. The pelvic bones of whales are “one of the classic examples of a vestigial structure,” said Otárola-Castillo. eye© Sam23/Fotolia. These bones embedded within its flesh near the region where hip bones are found in other animals were ~thought~ by evolutionists to be the remnants of hip bones on 'ancestors'..in the whales "evolutionary tree." Whale Tale Two Museums should now remove all of the altered skeletons, skulls and drawings since the most important parts of these âwalking whalesâ are admittedly made up. Yes, I can now see the strength of your impeccable logic. Unguided evolution doesn’t have a mechanism capable of getting past prokaryotes. ð. As such, it made sense to Dean and Dines that the pelvic bones could affe… The mechanisms of penile motion are not well understood in whales. – January 2011 If major predictions of evolution are found to be false, that just means evolution is more complex than we thought.” Much the way they employ other euphemisms and metaphors which are their version of filling the gaps where viable real world [those in this universe] explanations are lacking. It is the materialist’s fault for buying into an explanatory toolkit that is missing key tools. http://www.evolutionnews.org/2.....42291.html, Bat Evolution? ID proponents also recognize that a trial-and-error evolutionary process can do some things of minor consequence (finch beaks, bacterial resistance, and so on). https://www.learnreligions.com/vestigial-organs-say-about-evolution-249897 “Purpose” is a blasphemous curse word in religious doctrine of evolution. It is the penis bone belonging to an extinct walrus species! The existence (or maybe it’s better to say “abundance”) of vestigial organs is hardly compatible with the Allmighty God “who designed and constructed the Universe” view of Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition. Car is Vaporized in Mystery explosion a day after Georgia's Governor finally said... â, Bob O'H said: I would agree, but I think I might have a different view on which side is which.... â, JVL said: I do support the use of the legal system when done fairly but you need to decry and... â, Jerry @ 772 - One side of this political debate is for oppression and control by elites and responds mainly... â, Whatâs amazing is he doesnât realize you have to do redefine nothing as some thing for him to be right... â, JVL said: I donât think thatâs our position at all. Tails – you lose. Excerpt: Of all the supposed whale transitions, ambulocetus is probably the most well known. “Our research really changes the way we think about the evolution of whale pelvic bones in particular, but more generally about structures we call ‘vestigial.’ As a parallel, we are now learning that our appendix is actually quite important in several immune processes, not a functionally useless structure,” Dean said. They had long skulls and large carnivorous teeth. How does that cause a problem with evolution? Male genitalia evolve rapidly, probably as a result of sexual selection. What are the most important functions of the skeletal system? It serves as a retractor muscle for the penis in copulation and probably provides the base for lateral movements of the penis. ID proponents also recognize that designed things get old, fall into disuse, break down, etc. Scientists call them vestigial (or left-over) structures. Read Dr. Bergman's whale article to see that scientists have not been able to confirm that whales have vestiges of leg or pelvic bones; … http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6003501/. An illustration of German-born fossil collector Albert Koch's "Hydrarchos" as it appeared on display. And I saw the huge dump of ballots that... â, Judge for yourself, this is not what car crashes usually look like,,, especially for BMWs, one of the safest rated... â, @bornagain77: Imho, it's not really mysterious: Pooler police Public Information Officer Lindsey Heintzman said Deal was traveling on the interstate... â, Georgia Governor's Daughter's Boyfriend Dies in Explosion. Grrr. Maybe it will turn out that there are hardly any vestigial structures at all â¦ Just as lots of vestigial organs would prove that Darwinian evolution is true, not finding any would also prove that it is true. How much of this is mediated by the ischiocavernosus is not known. Both whales and dolphins have pelvic (hip) bones, evolutionary remnants from when their ancestors walked on land more than 40 million years ago. If so, what substances are they? Excerpt: We think that the most logical interpretation of the Pakicetus fossils are that they represent land-dwelling mammals that didnât even have teeth or ears in common with modern whales. And this is the formal expecation of the theistic paradigm, not just something some theist would like to believe. If you look at a complete whale skeleton in a museum, you’ll often see the tiny hindlimb and pelvic bones hanging from the rest of the skeleton, suspended by wires. If we notice the body plan of vertebrates, it would be noted that girdles are bones which allow limbs to get attached to the axial skeleton. ‘Vestigial’ like the other evolutionary sacred holy term, “Junk DNA”, is an evolutionary adaptation for winning arguments by not having to admit you don’t actually know something important within a debate. 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